:giveup: First off I will be the first to say I'm sorry for the way things have been going on the forum lately. I don't know if it's the heat or what but even at work everyone seems extra bitchy. All aside lets put that in the past and move on to why we joined OJT. For me personally going out with a group of fellow Jeepers and taking on obsticals that normally people don't go out of there way to go over or through is where I get the Jeep bug. I have more fun when you get to a spot that people get out and help each other over, spot through a tough spot, and when it's all done you say that was awesome, that looked good. I don't have anything against Chadwick it just doesn't have the trill factor for me, it's more of follow the leader. I go on stock run and more than stock, and in both I look to enjoy the reason I bought a Jeep, to go where others don't. That doesn't mean you have to tear your rig up, I'm pretty picky with mine because my wife will kill me really hard if I tear it up, breakage, it's going to happen. Part of breakage prevention is learning what you can a can't do it your Jeep. I am not trying to devide stockers and non-stockers in the club. I just don't want every club run to be stock, we have a stocker run Sept 9, which I plan on being at. We have also planned a non-stocker run that following weekend to step it up a bit, not hardcore just more challenging, I ain't out to see anyone tear their rig up. Seymour is a great park for the fact you can please all in one location, but keep in mine trail rating aren't alway what they seem, they had stock Libertys on level 3 trail and they had a blast, just don't let trail ratings keep you from trying new things, just remember you own a JEEP. :bowdown: